Karakterre Conversations with: Daniela Pillhofer & Christina Rasmussen of Littlewine

 

LITTLEWINE: We want to empower every person — from the world’s best sommeliers to passionate consumers — to better connect with the wines they drink, taste, serve or sell.

Karakterre was never just about showing wines. The aspiration was always one of creating a place of communication, networking, information and knowledge-sharing. We were always a small team, with limited resources. And as much as we had ideas, they were not ready to be brought IRL.

The forced hiatus named Covid took a lot away but gave one thing - thinking time. We were determined to come back better and stronger once that virus thing was all over.

Littlewine bridged Karakterre to that position. In May of 2023, we successfully partnered over a joint wish to leave a body of information-knowledge work behind us. Littlewine x Karakterre partnership was born as Everything Is Connected, a one day conference located deep in the Burgenland countryside.

There was talk of climate change, stockkultur, robots helping out in vineyards, as well as starting from zero as an aspiring winemaker (yes, it’s tough). Another successful Littlewine x Karakterre collaboration followed, during Karakterre week in New York in November 2023.

You’ll see some of those speaker videos surfacing as reels on our @wearekarakterre IG soon,

But, what IS Littlewine? And who is Littlewine?

The founders, Daniela Pillhofer and Christina Rasmussen, describe it as the winemaker-led educational platform that aims to bridge the gap between winemakers, wine professionals and winelovers globally.

Winemakers can use the tool for free to communicate about their stories, philosophies, wines and vineyards, giving them a voice, and their audiences a glimpse into their world. The app — built with wine professionals in mind — will launch soon. It will facilitate winemaker-focused education, structured knowledge management, and on-demand team training — one wine at a time.

That sounds good to me!

Karakterre’s collaboration with Littlewine is in its third edition now. For attendees of Karakterre 13 on May 22-23, Littlewine will be hosting educational talks on both days. To find out more, and to sign up, head to the registration form here.

Now, let’s meet the two!

Hey, guys! We want to get to know you. So, let’s get straight to the point. What are you most proud of?

Daniela: I moved to a foreign country at the age of 19, studied in a foreign language, and entered an industry that I had no background or relationships in – namely the wine industry. That is one of the things that jumps to my mind straight away. My relocation to London and the decision to work in wine was the starting point of my professional life and the 10 years that I’ve been working in the industry now have been pivotal.

And while I’ve been away from home, Vienna, for so long, I have never had a stronger connection to my family back home. In fact, the love, trust and closeness that I share with my family irrespective of the geographic distance that is between us makes me the proudest.

Christina: We both share the common thread of not having come from wine, and plunging ourselves headfirst into the industry. At 21 years old, likewise I also moved abroad — to France, to carry out an internship at a winery in Beaune (while studying French at the university of Exeter). I knew nobody there, nor did I know anything about wine yet.

However, I fell head over heels for this world, and never looked back. I’m proud of that dedication, and likewise of my dedication to learning French as fluently as possible. That has been instrumental to my career. Career-wise thus far, one of my proudest achievements was placing 2nd in the prestigious wine writing competition of JancisRobinson.com.

Of course, it goes without saying that I’m extremely proud of the app that we’re building, and I can’t wait to see it unveiled this year. As we’re still pre-official launch, many of the things we’ll be the proudest of are still to come. We are pursuing our dreams to make learning about wine, winemakers and agriculture more accessible and fun. 

Our mission is a huge one, and it takes great courage and many leaps of faith to do what we do. As a team we are there for each other through the good times and the hard times, and I’m very proud of the relationship that we have built.

 

What drives your everyday?

Daniela: Waking up to a world that is all but perfect is a big driver. It makes me angry and sad to see a world with war and climatic chaos, a world with suppressed communities and political systems that are serving a handful, not the masses, and a world where people engage in hate on platforms such as social media.

I’ve seen that wine is a medium —  a culture — a beverage that can bridge gaps between people and if wine serves its ultimate purpose (in my opinion), then it has the power to bring people closer together. It’s this hope that drives me every day.

Christina: I also believe that wine has great potential to bring people together, to drive positive change in agriculture, and to better educate consumers. Wine is romantic. People love to learn about wine in a way that people don’t necessarily love to learn about potatoes or carrots. That means we have a certain duty to leverage wine as a tool to teach the world about urgent agricultural topics.

I love our wine world deeply. I love the very notion that we’re able to tend our land to create the beautiful liquid we call wine; a liquid that can be capable of maturing for many decades. A true time capsule! It is an honour for me to tell the stories of pioneering winemakers in our E-Zine, and simultaneously to also create a platform which enables them to tell their own stories and communicate the facts behind their wines.

In our digital era, the swathe of misinformation that exists online is only growing, so the chance to have true-to-source information is invaluable. Additionally, the ability to enable winelovers to learn more about agriculture and winemaking from the very farmers themselves is so important to me. That’s how I learnt about farming and wine, and I want to afford others the same opportunity. That drives me every day. Ultimately,

I hope that our work can help more people to fall in love with the world of wine, bring more people into our wine world, and improve the wine world for the better. I want our work to matter.

Daniela presenting Littlewine at a panel at Littlewine x Karakterre “Everything is Connected” talks, May 2023

How do you cultivate your community?

Christina & Daniela: LITTLEWINE is a truly community-led and community-empowering platform, and our community sits at the core of everything that we do.  We speak to winemakers and wine professionals all around the world on a daily basis, listening to their needs and concerns to make sure our current and future visions align with theirs.

We also communicate the stories of our community on our social media platforms, and soon we’ll also begin our newsletters again. There are also many other community-focused ideas for LITTLEWINE’s next chapters, but that’s under wraps for now… more to come soon!

 

Where do you see the crossroads of technology and winemaking today? One’s a purely nature-connected activity and the other one is a symbol of today’s fast-paced (capitalist) world. Your own systems itself are industry-changing (congratulations on that!). I think it’s very important to consider this question for future sustainability.

Daniela: I'd actually argue that winemaking isn't purely nature-connected and that technology can help in making it more sustainable while economically reasonable. There is an increasing number of people and companies out there that use technology to make our planet and society healthier and happier.

At LITTLEWINE we use technology to ultimately connect people more with nature and the work that goes into wine. There is the tendency to romanticise how wine is made and how vineyard work is done when in reality winemakers have one of the hardest jobs that I have come across. Just think of weather extremes that can literally rip out 100% of your seasonal work and income over night. We need more transparency in wine and winemaking, so ultimately, there is an increased appreciation and willingness to pay for wine. In the UK, for example, most people spend an average of £6 on a bottle of wine. That number includes 20% VAT as well as £2.67 in alcohol duties, leaving £2.33 on the table to account for the costs and profits across retail, logistics, packaging and winemaking.

We clearly have a long way to go to educate consumers on the realities and nuances of wine and while the goal should not be to make wine more exclusive, we should strive for a world where we drink less but better. This can mean consuming 1 bottle for £15 per week, rather than 2 bottles for £7.50 each per week.

And, personally, I believe that this education needs to come via an experience-led approach. For example, once anyone has stood in a terraced vineyard in the Mosel one understands what drinking a wine from there means in terms of labour, costs, and culture. But let’s be realistic — not everyone can travel and visit the regions or winemakers and clearly, winemakers can't be hosts full-time or constantly fly across the globe to share their work in person.

With LITTLEWINE we aim to bridge those gaps, and technology is one of the mediums that allow us to bring our vision for a more immersive, healthy, and sustainable wine ecosystem to life.

Christina: I agree!

Although farming and winemaking can in theory be purely nature-connected, there are also many potential intersections with technology that can be beneficial. Of course, great wine is made by great farmers, who are devoted to spending significant time an

d effort in the vineyard, and who are inherently connected to nature and the rhythm of the seasons. But to be a great farmer also means you need to have the right tools at your disposal. The first of these tools is knowledge. This can be gained over time and observation, passed down from previous generations, gained from reading books and articles, and gain

ed from meeting other farmers and winemakers either in one’s own region or also when travelling. Technology falls within this: it can play an enormous role in aiding winemakers to learn, study, and implement better practices. For example, viticulturist Jaco Engelbrecht and Eben Sadie of the Sadie Family Wines use technology in the form of GIS studies, NDVIs, and they also build solar profiles for their vineyards. This enables them to better understand their sites, thus best interpret their needs, which ultimately makes them better farmers. As Eben says, “loving your terroir means to study it in all realms.”

To farm well you also need good equipment.

Sometimes, this is as simple as having a good scythe or a shovel. But most vineyards require some form of tractor work. The technological strides that have been made by Monarch Tractor and Greenhive (the vineyard robot) are monumental and have the real potential to change agriculture for the better by cutting CO2 emissions and by lessening soil compaction, just to name two critical benefits.

Christina hosting a panel at Littlewine x Karakterre Talks during Karakterre New York, November 2023, at Colonia Verde

Does AI (artificial intelligence) and its impact on the future of us give you sleepless nights?

Daniela: I’m a light sleeper in general, but yes, I’m concerned about the developments in AI.

Firstly, AI is evolving at lightning speed and we as society cannot even imagine where it could take us one day. Secondly, regulation in AI barely exists and is struggling to keep up. And thirdly, Europe is not known for acting bold and fast when it comes to innovation in comparison to other geographies. But things are rarely black and white and there are incredible use cases for AI, and we should not cancel technological developments because of fear or scepticism.

We need to educate ourselves about new technology, openly assess its merits and dangers, and importantly, institute regulations that guarantee a playing field where we protect human nature, IP rights, privacy, creativity, and other concerns that we may have with regards to AI.

When I go out for dinner, I want to socialise and engage with the friendly staff at a restaurant — I don’t want an AI-powered sommelier engine to recommend me a bottle of wine. But I’m all up for AI helping me in speeding up tedious, repetitive tasks in my job, such as bank reconciliations in accounting, or updating numbers across spreadsheets.

Christina: Daniela said it very well!

I am deeply concerned about AI being used widely for content creation. Not only does it remove the very essence of what quality writing is, but it also further propels the spread of the misinformation that exists online. When it comes to wine, there exists a plethora of incorrect information about pretty much everything (regions, wines and winemakers in particular), and the utilisation of AI risks this expanding exponentially.

On the other hand, if used with caution, I think AI has the potential to be a very powerful tool in helping us to simplify tasks and to streamline aspects of our work. It shouldn’t be seen as a replacement for a human being, but rather as something than can be an added useful tool… sort of like a far more complex version of iPhone’s Siri.  

 

Winegrowing and winemaking are most commonly seen as male activities. Sadly! We’re actually very happy to see a growth in female ownership and activation within our own Karakterre community. How do you see the awareness of gender equality in the industry? And how do you contribute to it?

Christina: The wine world is becoming more inclusive. We are seeing more women join the industry, and also more women in leadership roles. I am very proud to know so many incredible women winemakers, buyers, sommeliers, journalists, etc.

However, so much work still needs to be done with regards to equality and safety for women in our industry. Harassment is rife.

One of the most important things all of us can do is to work to ensure that our wine world becomes safer. Organisations such as Queena Wong’s Curious Vines are now offering Women’s Safety Workshops. In addition to this, we must also elevate, support, and listen to women, as well as people from the LGBTQIA+, BIPOC and BAME communities to take steps towards making our wine world fully inclusive. Mentorship can be truly invaluable; I have mentored through The Roots Fund and it has been an incredible journey.

Daniela: As a female-led start-up working at the intersection of wine and technology, we’re the minority in a room most days. The playing field has certainly become more diverse than it was 10 years ago when I would sometimes let go of networking opportunities knowing that I would be the only woman in that boys’ club and feel uncomfortable.

Not coming from a wine background, I carried a lot of insecurity with me that held me back. Today, I feel much less lonely working in wine thanks to the industry increasingly acknowledging and bringing in people from underrepresented groups — I just wish that happened earlier. There is still a long way to go and just last week, I joined a 5-speakers masterclass with the speaker line-up being all but gender diverse. And it’s not just gender diversity that the industry must work on. Overall, we need the industry to be much more welcoming to people of all backgrounds — whether they aspire to work in wine, or just occasionally enjoy a glass of wine. And if every time a woman gets a seat at the table, we bring another woman with us, we will be working towards where the industry needs to be.

And when we see a lack of diversity in a room or at a table, we must and should point it out.

 

One female that you think breaks ground in winemaking right now?

Daniela: Phew, I deeply admire many women that make wine.

If we stay within the KARAKTERRE cosmos, one cannot ignore the amazing work of Stefanie Renner (and her brother Georg). Steffie is one of the most talented, thoughtful, and charming winemakers out there. I’ve been lucky to follow her winemaking path since the early days and it has been a journey that went from strength to strength.

Her work in the vineyards is meticulous and when you speak to hear about winemaking you get the feeling that she must already have 50 vintages under her belt when in fact, she took over the family winery not long ago. The recently launched “Bottlefish” — 100% Blaufränkisch carbonically fermented — is my latest crush from the RennerSistas wine range.   

Christina: There are so many!

To highlight a recent discovery: at Real Wine Fair I came across the new project, ‘Heya Wines.’ ‘Heya’ means ‘She’ in Arabic, and it is an homage to female farmers. Created by two women, Claudine Lteif and Michelle Chami, the labels shine a light on their female vineyard workers, who are Syrian refugees. In Lebanon, equal pay in agriculture is rare, but Heya (and Mersel – Michelle is the wife of Eddie Chami) ensures they are paid equally and that they are provided with support.

Often, agricultural workers are not seen: neither in marketing material nor on the labels. But by shining a light on them, they are championed, and dialogue is opened on the importance of fair labour. Additionally, both Heya and Mersel show us wine through the lens of Arabic culture and heritage through visual representation (photography and Arabic calligraphy). This is also a crucial step in making the wine world more diverse and inclusive.

 

What are you currently drinking? Many of the world’s still unexplored wine regions are now coming to the forefront of the public’s attention. What’s your pick?

Christina: It is pretty much impossible for me to pick just one, as I am passionate about so many.

From my time at Karakterre, a particular highlight was discovering the ‘Arács’ cuvée (Balaton, Hungary) from Peter Nagyváradi last year: a breathtakingly energetic saline-driven wine from 80+-year-old bush vines of Olaszrizling (Welschriesling, which is one of the most underrated Central European varieties, in my eyes). It blew my mind. I also have a particular penchant for white wines with extended lees ageing.

From France, while Beaujolais is of course very well-known for its Gamay, it’s not well-known for its whites, which represent only 3% of plantings. While the majority of the crus’ soils are best suited to Gamay, the south of the region has some particularly promising terroirs for white wine. Paul-Henri Thillardon planted Chardonnay, Chardonnay Rose and Aligoté on blue marl here, and the wine he produces from this vineyard is named ‘Georges.’ It’s matured for two years on the lees, and the complex salinity it expresses is nothing short of breathtaking. If you’re a fan of the best ouillé Chardonnays that the Jura has to offer, you’ll also love this wine.

Daniela: While I love exploring new regions and grape varieties, I also find big excitement in a new vintage.

Back at home in Austria, we would always drink wine from a small number of producers, and it would never get boring because a new vintage always meant new discoveries and that’s still how I approach wine today. Every time I buy a glass or bottle of wine, I get to vote and that’s why I’m mostly buying and drinking wines that come from future-fit farming and friendly people.

My taste spreads a wide range when it comes to grape varieties, regions and winemaking styles and context always matters. On its own, I love the unparalleled energy that I find in the wines of Weingut Werlitsch (Styria, Austria). With food, I admire the playful seriousness that I find in the wines of Pierre Ménard (Loire, France). On a pensive day I long for a thoughtful bottle of Crescendo from Selvadolce (Liguria, Italy). At the end of a meal, bubbles, rather than sweet wine, are my bottle of choice and Moritz Kissinger (Rheinhessen, Germany), for example, crafts bubbles that give some Grower Champagnes a run for their money.

On the reds, Blaufränkisch has stolen my heart — from the lighter expressions, such as Bonsai, from Claus Preisinger (Burgenland, Austria) to deeper interpretations, such as Ried Ratschen, from Weingut Wachter-Wiesler (Südburgenland, Austria), or the local interpretations of Blaufränkisch (Frankovka) that emerge at Milan Nestarec’s (Moravia, Czechia) and Naboso’s (Bratislava, Slovakia) wineries. When it comes to less explored wine regions, my top tips are Stajerska in Slovenia and the wines from Vino Gross, as well as the Württemberg region in Germany and the wines of Roterfaden.

Few things compare to standing in the vineyards there and marvelling at the incredible work these winemakers do in regions that we need to see much more on wine lists. 

One place you could eat at right now, anywhere in the world?

Daniela: Der Floh (Langenlebarn, Austria) just outside of Vienna is a personal favourite of mine. I used to go there as a young girl celebrating family occasions, and today it’s still a must-visit for me when I am back home. Think perfectly executed, yet emotional dishes from locally sourced ingredients, warm-hearted service in a feel-good atmosphere and a stunning wine list that caters to any mood and occasion. In summer, they also have outdoor capacities and when I was a kid, we would sometimes bike there from Vienna, refuel in their beautiful “Gastgarten” which is right next to the Danube, and then bike back with the best memories in our luggage. 

Christina: Svinkløv Badehotel on the west coast of Jutland in Denmark. This part of Denmark is one of the most beautiful places in the world and it’s very special to me. The food at the restaurant is created from the best of Danish produce, farmed according to permaculture and/or biodynamically. It is delicious in its simplicity. The dishes aren’t fancy, but rather just utilise the tastiest flavours. Plus, their wine list is fantastic. I spend a lot of time in both Copenhagen and in Jutland, as I have family there. In Copenhagen, I’m obviously spoilt for choice, but in rural Jutland it’s quite hard to come by a good wine list, and the Svinkløv wine list is truly excellent by international standards.

 

How do you keep healthy?

Christina: Getting 7-8 hours of sleep is very important to me! I try to be in bed with the lights out by 10pm latest. Then, I work out – either at the gym, or in spinning classes. I also play tennis, and practice yoga which is important for both my body and mind. I also work on the weekends in my little vineyard, which keeps me fit. Backpack sprayers are heavy!

Daniela: It’s a challenge to keep truly healthy in an industry that is characterised by alcohol, food, and long hours. I’ve always struggled to put my personal wellbeing first and, in the past, have too often made decisions where I put others, or also business, first. I’m actively working on this and I’m far from having reached a state where I can genuinely say that I feel physically and mentally balanced — I’m still exploring what works for me. For example, I noticed that sports for me is more about regularity than intensity, and a daily 30 minutes on the cross-trainer or weights training tremendously impacts my sleep at night. When life feels overwhelming, I hit the punch bag, dance like nobody is watching, or go for an extended walk and switch off all devices that ring or buzz. I’ve become better at saying “no” and embracing a JOMO (= joy of missing out) perspective to life, rather than falling for a FOMO (= fear of missing out) decision-making process. Covid has taught me that I am a person who needs time by herself, and I actively take those moments, hours or days out of my working life. In a typical week I don’t drink Sunday to Thursday. Friday and Saturday are my social days and I rarely drink alcohol outside of social settings. After a week or weekend of wine & food extravaganza I purposefully follow the principles of intermittent fasting and I have also become more aware of the foods that give me, rather than drain, energy.

 

What’s your relax routine?

Daniela: Music plays a huge role in my life. I’ve been a dancer for years, played the piano and as a kid, dreamt of performing in musicals. Still today, I get a lot of positive, smoothing energy from music. Certain songs and lyrics allow me to travel back in time and when singing out loud to my childhood memories — the songs of the 90s — I can truly switch off. I also find relaxation in a cup of tea (Oolong tea is my favourite) and in certain scents, such as the smell of sandalwood. Other activities that put me into relax mode are listening to birds chirping, going for a walk (preferably in a vineyard), listening to podcasts, playing board and card games, or cooking recipes that take considerate time compared to what I would cook on a typical working day.

Christina: I love to go on a long walk to relax, often with my camera to snap some wildlife photography. I love being around animals more than anything else. Being behind the lens and focusing on getting a good shot helps my mind to switch off fully. I also love to simply sit down in nature and close my eyes. I truly believe that having your bare hands or feet on the ground allows you to connect with Mother Earth in a way that is both restorative and invigorating. It is good for the soul.

 

Your next big thing is…

Christina & Daniela: I think we’re in the middle of the next big thing. At LITTLEWINE, we want to empower every person — from the world’s best sommeliers to passionate consumers — to better connect with the wines that they drink, taste, serve or sell. Likewise, we want to give winemakers a voice; to empower them to tell their stories. We have a huge purpose-led vision behind our start-up and we’re clearly shooting for the stars, but if not everything works out to plan, then at least we’ve tried and we’ll land among the stars which wouldn’t be too bad either. But for anyone who dares to dream and challenge the status quo — winemakers, sommeliers, importers, distributors, and winelovers — we’d love to invite you to join us on our expedition.

Exciting times, indeed. By the way, winemakers can sign up for the LITTLEWINE platform here. Wine professionals can join the waitlist here.

Thank you both!

Marko